Curse

Antithesis · Apr 04, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Hexbreaker Aria alone is too weak, and Paragons do not have anymore hex removing skills, which is why Rac's variant had to rely on Emphatic Removal.

I agree Hexbreaker Aria is not enough for the team, but it is enough for casters and that was my point. Sab's lacks hex removal because most dangerous hexes impact physicals, ergo Empathic Removal is found in Rac's and not Sab's. Empathic Removal / Expel Hexes etc should be used as spot removers to back up HA if and when you need it to conserve the time and energy of the hex remover. Either ER or EP can easily slot onto a Paragon to back up Hexbreaker Aria. In your case, Hex Eater Signet is not enough given the rubbish recharge, so you still need spot hex removal.

I'm not arguing that you shouldn't take interrupts and anti-hex, whilst not needed they are desirable. By the way, what's your character's build? Why can't you take one role and offload the other to Sab's MM?

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I never use 4 monks either. But I do use Sab's healer and Mhenlo, so I only have 1 monk.

I was being sarcastic.

Take Sab's away then see how your Mesmer performs. The MM is what's saving the Mesmer's butt by creating a meatshield for the dopey AI to attack instead of it. No offence intended, but you could slot anything in between the Restorer and the MM and still have an effective team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I didnt have a problem when replacing the SS necro in his build with Gwen when I needed interrupts.

I drop the SS too whenever i need anti-caster or anti-melee, usually in the form of a BHA (if no henchy can fill the role) or a Blindbot, both are more useful than a Mesmer.

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

And I have tested BHA+Epidemic+Volley many times in HM, it just doesn't work with the heroes AI, I had to micro-manage alot and click Epidemic for the hero each time. The hero prefers to volley most of the time and I even saw him casting Epidemic on the last monster left standing.

I'm not disagreeing that usage of Epidemic isn't ideal when Volley is on the same bar because the Ranger does lose focus. Nor that they cast it on single enemies like Rangers / Ritualists standing next to Spirits. Heroes don't cast Ancestor's Rage against a single foe, that doesn't meant the skill is useless. What i disagree with is they don't know when Epidemic will hit adjacent foes, they clearly do and they will cast if it will hit. If you have problems with Epidemic, remove Volley and stick Rapid Fire in. I stick Epidemic on a Paragon and leave Volley on the Ranger.

We're arguing over nothing - you're saying you need to take a Mesmer for interrupts and Hex removal BUT I can easily slot Hex removal or interrupts into existing party members whilst retaining the offensive / defensive power completely lacking in an interrupt Mesmer. Let's assume we need a Mesmer and analyse your build instead.

Fast Casting is used primarily to recharge a dud rez and makes bugger all difference to .25 sec interrupts. The elite is wasted when most of the time the Mesmer is standing there scratching it's bum. Compare your interrupts to Power Block (single spell interrupts vs 14 sec shutdown of that skill line) and Power Lock (12 sec shutdown of that skill) - those skills allow a Mesmer to focus on multiple targets better than MoR boosted recharge. Vengeance is a guaranteed kill, often in the middle of battle, whereas it's rare that Death Pact Signet will result in another death. Mantra of Recovery has no effect on signets, I'd rather take Remove Hex than a touch-range 25 sec recharge signet. Seriously, how is that solving your hex problem when most dangerous hexes recharge quicker than Hex Eater Signet? HES is useful for degen hexes, but not against something like SS which can hit again in 10 secs.

It's a pretty crappy build just to fast cast/recharge Vengeance when those who benefit most from the rez should rarely be dying in the first place. A Power Blocker slays this build.

Power Block [e] | Power Lock | Power Spike | Cry of Frustration | Drain Enchantment | Optional | Leech Signet | Death Pact Signet
12 Domination, 12 Inspiration 10 Restoration. 40/40 Domination set.

...same role, stronger build. Death Pact Signet at 10 Resto = full health + 72% energy. The optional slot can be filled with Hex Eater Signet, Empathy, Diversion, Signet of Humility, Ether Feast...whatever, I'd go with Empathy. Power Drain's not needed, e-management is fine. If you need more hex removal, Expel Hexes or Hex Eater Vortex can replace Power Block. If you really need more interrupts, take Mantra of Recovery.

In HM the damage and utility offered by the Mesmer is lower than alternatives in that Hero slot and that's definitely a waste. Yes, your Mesmer will work, you've proven that and i do appreciate your ingenuity by finding a use for Vengeance. But anything sandwiched into the guts of Sabway works. If you like Mesmers take one, but at least make it a good choice.

DarkSpirit · Apr 04, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I agree Hexbreaker Aria is not enough for the team, but it is enough for casters and that was my point. Sab's lacks hex removal because most dangerous hexes impact physicals,

That is not true. Sab's lacks hex removal simply because most PvE hexes can be healed through, not because of physicals. There is no assumption in Sab's build that it is a ALL casters team. In fact, Sab recommended bringing nukers and warriors henchies along and my warrior characters work very well with Sab's heroes too.

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ergo Empathic Removal is found in Rac's and not Sab's. Empathic Removal / Expel Hexes etc should be used as spot removers to back up HA if and when you need it to conserve the time and energy of the hex remover. Either ER or EP can easily slot onto a Paragon to back up Hexbreaker Aria. In your case, Hex Eater Signet is not enough given the rubbish recharge, so you still need spot hex removal.

Then bring inspired hex instead if Hex eater bothers you so much.

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Take Sab's away then see how your Mesmer performs.

Uh..it is not a solo hero build.

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The MM is what's saving the Mesmer's butt by creating a meatshield for the dopey AI to attack instead of it. No offence intended, but you could slot anything in between the Restorer and the MM and still have an effective team.

I almost always bring a MM along, even with Rac's build. Rac's default build has problems in many HM areas by themselves.

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I drop the SS too whenever i need anti-caster or anti-melee, usually in the form of a BHA (if no henchy can fill the role) or a Blindbot, both are more useful than a Mesmer.

If I do need one I'll be sure to bring a BHA hench. I dont bring heroes to imitate an available hench build.

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I'm not disagreeing that usage of Epidemic isn't ideal when Volley is on the same bar because it does lose focus. Nor that they cast it on single enemies like Rangers standing next to Spirits. Heroes don't cast Ancestor's Rage against a single foe, that doesn't meant the skill is useless. What i disagree with is they don't know when Epidemic will hit adjacent foes, they clearly do and they will cast if it will hit. If you have problems with Epidemic, remove Volley and stick Rapid Fire in. I stick Epidemic on a Paragon and leave Volley on the Ranger.

That doesn't matter. Epidemic is still a crappy skill for a hero. It has only adjacent (i.e. shoulder-to-shoulder) range and heroes just can't use it right by themselves in any case.

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Fast Casting is used primarily to recharge a dud rez and makes bugger all difference to .25 sec interrupts.

Wrong. Fast Casting is used not only to better interrupt spells with short cast time, but also for MoR. MoR shortens the recharge time of all spells in the hero's skill bar.

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Compare your interrupts to Power Block (single spell interrupts vs 14 sec shutdown of that skill line)

Power Block has too slow a recharge and too high an energy cost for a PvE mesmer.

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and Power Lock (12 sec shutdown of that skill) - those skills allow a Mesmer to focus on multiple targets better than MoR boosted recharge.

The mesmer would focus on multiple targets with or without Power Lock. MoR just recharges them faster especially CoF, which is an AoE skill interrupt. Power Block is good for only shuting down 1 single caster monster, how often does that happen in PvE? MoR-CoF plus PDrain and Power Spike would help to shutdown multiple casters while damaging them, and maintaining your energy at the same time.

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Vengeance is a guaranteed kill, often in the middle of battle, whereas it's rare that Death Pact Signet will result in another death.

Death Pact Signet would result in another death often because it doesn't provide full energy. You would see your newly resurrected Mhenlo standing there tanking hits because he doesn't have enough energy right after res to heal himself or anyone else. But I dont care if you use another res, it is not build breaking. Deaths are nice for the MM anyway.

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Mantra of Recovery has no effect on signets, I'd rather take Remove Hex than a touch-range 25 sec recharge signet. Seriously, how is that solving your hex problem when most dangerous hexes recharge quicker than Hex Eater Signet? HES is useful for degen hexes, but not against something like SS.

Wrong. HES can be used for other hexes, not just degen hexes. And you dont need to MoR a hex removal skill, it is only a secondary function, if she keeps casting hex removal how is she going to interrupt anything?

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Leech Signet is another bad hero skill so dont even think about interrupting much with that skill bar (30s recharge?). Heroes also dont know how to use Leech Signet as a skill interrupt. With your skill bar, the only e-management skills are Drain enchantment (20s recharge if the target is even enchanted) and Leech Signet (30s recharge), good luck making your mesmer's energy work in HM.

CoF is a full 15s without MoR, and Power Block is 20s for 15e. Go go infinite energy, maybe you should just ditch DPS, and make it a N/Me so you can use soul reaping too since you plan a mesmer's skillbar like you do a necro's. Do you even have a level 20 PvE mesmer character?

Antithesis · Apr 04, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Dude, do you even play this game?!? I have a Legendary Survivor Mesmer, want a screenshot? I admit, I farmed Jade Brotherhood for it, but it was all 95 and not just the first 6. Backfire and Diversion do work in PvE.

All degen hexes can be healed through, all anti-caster hexes can be ignored, it's only the anti-physical hexes that can cause you grief and 25 sec Hex removal sucks vs any hex. You're already a /Mo, why wouldn't you just take the 5 sec recharge on Remove Hex? Your logic is astounding.

Power Block + Power Lock both have reasonable recharges +36% chance of HSR and will tie down precisely the problem you're experiencing - a single foe that inflicts massive damage with a monster skill. Both can easily be run on the same bar as Empathy WITHOUT Power Drain. And if it's just a single foe causing problems, take Dazed instead!

I agree with Leech Signet, but it's there because it can interrupt more than spells. If you need the energy, by all means replace it with Power Drain, but casters are the first to drop. I test all builds in HM, i suggest you do the same instead of theorycrafting.

A rez that kills is just plain stupid. The 25% damage bonus is pointless because Physicals, the class most advantaged by the bonus, just shouldn't die.

Your hero spends most of its time standing around doing nothing and is all but useless vs Physicals, so MoR is pointless. CoF doesn't get used enough to justify the faster recharge.

Fast Casting can be left at 0 and your hero will run the interrupts exactly the same way. You're dreaming to suggest that it'll consistently interrupt RoF, if it happens it'll happen by accident.

DPS at 10 Resto provides full health + 72% energy...the target revives with near max energy and lives longer than 30 secs.

Epidemic can spread 25 secs of Dazed to bunched-up casters, that's hardly useless and they do it well. Revise your build, i never micro Epidemic. Definitely not needed but handy nonetheless.

I know you really want to use your build, but instead of digging up strawman arguments like "HES can be used for other hexes" and "72% !=100%", try taking an objective view of the build...there are clearly better options. The entire premise of your build is to find a purpose for Vengeance. If you've got a specific zone in mind for me to test your build, let me know. In all testing i've done so far, mine beats yours hands down and i'd be hard pressed to take either.

DarkSpirit · Apr 04, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Dude, do you even play this game?!?

All degen hexes can be healed through, all anti-caster hexes can be ignored, it's only the anti-physical hexes that can cause you grief

Do you even know what Diversion is? Hexes DO impact casters and cause them grief too. Do you know what Last Rite of Torment or Wurm Bile is? Do they impact casters too or are they just anti-physical? Do you know that even Empathy can hurt a caster hero/hench?

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You're already a /Mo, why wouldn't you just take the 5 sec recharge on Remove Hex? Your logic is astounding.

Remove hex only removes 1 hex and it definitely doesn't gain me back any energy. Unlike your infinite energy mesmer, our mesmers actually need energy to cast spells.

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Power Block + Power Lock both have reasonable recharges +36% chance of HSR and will tie down precisely the problem you're experiencing - a single foe that inflicts massive damage with a monster skill. Both can easily be run on the same bar as Empathy WITHOUT Power Drain. And if it's just a single foe causing problems, take Dazed instead!

Power Block is a 20s recharge spell and Power Lock is 12s recharge. They are good on single caster scenario, but not that useful for multiple casters.

Your proposed mesmer build already has 5 interrupts! That should be more than enough interrupts period, with or without daze.

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A rez that kills is just plain stupid. The 25% damage bonus is pointless because Physicals, the class most advantaged by the bonus, just shouldn't die.

Wrong again. The 25% damage bonus applies to all direct damage. Only damage from degeneration and hexes are excluded.

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Fast Casting can be left at 0 and your hero will run the interrupts exactly the same way. You're dreaming to suggest that it'll consistently interrupt RoF, if it happens it'll happen by accident.

Maybe you missed the part when others on this thread said it interrupts multiple foes. Not just the one that you target.

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DPS at 10 Resto provides full health + 72% energy...the target revives with near max energy and lives longer than 30 secs.

My point is why settle for 72% (with 10 to resto) when I can have 100% (without investing a single attribute point)? But I dont see where this res argument is leading to.

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Epidemic can spread 25 secs of Dazed to bunched-up casters, that's hardly useless and they do it well. Revise your build, i never micro Epidemic. Definitely not needed but handy nonetheless.

You must be joking? A level 16 marksmanship only gives 21s of Dazed from BHA. Epidemic doesn't extend the condition, it only takes the remaining duration and spreads it to enemies that are touching shoulders with your target. Are you expecting a level 20 marksmanship hero instead?

Nevertheless, I am sure all the casters are going to be bunched nicely for you to spread daze+epidemic(adjacent range), right. If that were the case, I think Cynn would have more luck knocking down and damaging the whole group with her Meteor Shower than to wait for your daze to spread. And you forgot that heroes dont take the distance between the next closest enemy into consideration since I have seen them cast Epidemic even on the last monster left standing!

Like I have said, in the original build if you dont like to bring a hex remover then replace it with Spiritual Pain. If you dont like HES then bring inspired hex or remove hex if you prefer. I dont see why you need to keep nitpicking on just 2 particular skills (HES and Vengeance), with so many other options, that have no impact on the rest of the build.

Antithesis · Apr 04, 2008, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Do you even know what Diversion is?

Redundancy FTW. Remove Hex will cover it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Unlike your infinite energy mesmer, our mesmers actually need energy to cast spells.

Both builds rely on the same energy management, primarily powered by Drain Enchantment. If there are enough enchants around to be stripped, there's ample energy to power Empathy on the bar without Power Drain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Do you know that even Empathy can hurt a caster hero/hench?

H/H casters don't use IAS and don't have a great deal of time to wand. Therefore, it's effectively a Physical hex and Remove Hex will cover it.

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Nevertheless, I am sure all the casters are going to be bunched nicely for you to spread daze+epidemic(adjacent range), right.

Fevered Dreams + BHA / Stunning Strike / Spear Swipe. Why wouldn't i just take a Fevered Dreams + Spear Swipe Paragon instead? Instant AoE Dazed.

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Hexes DO impact casters and cause them grief too. Do you know what Last Rite of Torment or Wurm Bile is? Do they impact casters too or are they just anti-physical?

Minions + Pain Inverter.

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Look, your proposed mesmer build already has 5 interrupts! Please dont even tell me you need daze too.

I'm suggesting you drop the Mesmer entirely for Dazed. 5 interrupts is stupid, but the build i've proposed is based on your own. The Elite can be swapped and Power Spike can be replaced, ideally with Ether Feast to keep your resser alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

You must be joking? A level 16 marksmanship only gives 21s of Dazed from BHA. Epidemic doesn't extend the condition, it only takes the remaining duration and spreads it to enemies that are touching shoulders with your target. Are you expecting a level 20 marksmanship hero instead?

I herd Silencing bowstrings wer gud.

Bottom line, HES and Vengeance are the reason you're justifying this Mesmer build. The rest of it is AoK with me.

DarkSpirit · Apr 04, 2008, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I'm suggesting you drop the Mesmer entirely for Dazed.
I herd Silencing bowstrings wer gud.

Daze is good for single target, I agree. But I am not interested in shuting down a single target most of the time in PvE. This is also the reason why I dont care much for Power Block because it is a 20s recharge spell, and it is also good against a single caster and you have to wait awhile before it recharges, for use on another target.

If BHA+Epidemic+Volley combo works well on heroes then a ranger hero would make alot more sense but realistically, after much testing, a ranger hero doesn't do AoE daze well. A human ranger, however, is another story. A mesmer hero does interrupt multiple targets and they are natural hex removers as well, with fast casting and MoR.

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Bottom line, HES and Vengeance are the reason you're justifying this
Mesmer build. The rest of it is AoK with me.

HES and Vengeance are only 2 skills out of 8. Hex removal is optional, as I have mentioned in my OP. However if you want hex removal, but you dont like HES then by all means bring inspired hex, which would have been a close second choice.

Inspired hex returns energy too and you can cast it from range. It also has the instant recharge ability when used on monster hexes (some monster hexes are, hands down, the most damaging hexes in PvE). But it doesn't return as much net energy and it doesn't remove hexes from more than 1 target. I like HES because it actually makes use of the fact that heroes/henchies tend to clump together. If not, I can just flag them and make Gwen use it. It is a secondary function and most of the time Gwen tends to use it only AFTER a battle anyway.

Vengeance, I have given enough reasons in this whole thread so I dont want to repeat myself.

Antithesis · Apr 04, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I'm not trying to piss on your picnic, i'm trying to work out why it's built the way it is and how it stands up to alternatives. I can build a Quivering Blade Warrior but that doesn't make it better than a D-Slasher.

It's an interesting build so thanks for posting it. It has been fun to muck around with my Mesmer heroes.

DarkSpirit · Apr 04, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I'm not trying to piss on your picnic, i'm trying to work out why it's built they way it is and how it stands up to alternatives. I can build a Quivering Blade Warrior but that doesn't make it better than a D-Slasher.

It's an interesting build so thanks for posting it. It has been fun to muck around with my Mesmer heroes.

Thanks. I am a sabway fan but sabway, as you know, has its weaknesses. A mesmer does fill in those weaknesses quite nicely, having interrupts as well as good hex removal.

Another way of interrupting is to use knockdown (for those monsters that can be knocked down of course). I have also posted a more resilient mesmer build 89AL and -2 damage reduction, that relies on 7-signets. Here is the build:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...10&postcount=3

Feel free to try that out too and make any suggestions on it.

Antithesis · Apr 04, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Thanks. I am a sabway fan but sabway, as you know, has its weaknesses. A mesmer does fill in those weaknesses quite nicely, having interrupts as well as good hex removal.

Absolutely a fair call. Despite my criticism this has a place in my rotation because it's a fun build and most of the skill choices are justified. As long as the Mesmer can stay up this does ease pressure, but so does proper agro control.

The question is whether or not i would drop a BHA or Blindbot or Paragon for it. Why won't they just give us 7 heroes!

DarkSpirit · Apr 04, 2008, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

The question is whether or not i would drop a BHA or Blindbot or Paragon for it. Why won't they just give us 7 heroes!

If you drop the BHA hero, you can always make it up with the BHA hench, if you are in EOTN and non-Kurzick Factions, if you think that you need one later on. It's your call.

Super Igor · Apr 04, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I thing mesmer > BHA. start the flame. :P

~Super Igor

~

Racthoh · Apr 04, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Daze is good for single target, I agree. But I am not interested in shuting down a single target most of the time in PvE.

I can't think of many groups of enemies where multiple shutdowns would be necessary to win. Epidemic with Dazed is mostly to help out monks as spells are coming in at a slower pace. This is basically what a mesmer hero loaded with interrupts does as well: reduces pressure. Any party with a decent amount of passive defense doesn't need that because those random spells being interrupted pose no real threat to the group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Furthermore, if I want a BHA interrupt ranger, I'll bring Zho. Why do I need a BHA hero? She doesn't have Epidemic, but heroes dont use that right anyway.

Zho requires some support or you have to hope her first BHA lands. Otherwise she uses Penetrating Shot repeatedly and kills her own energy. Not having a decent level of Expertise is a pain.

DarkSpirit · Apr 04, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I can't think of many groups of enemies where multiple shutdowns would be necessary to win. Epidemic with Dazed is mostly to help out monks as spells are coming in at a slower pace. This is basically what a mesmer hero loaded with interrupts does as well: reduces pressure. Any party with a decent amount of passive defense doesn't need that because those random spells being interrupted pose no real threat to the group.

I agree that multiple interrupts are not always needed. But there are times when interrupting extra powerful spells/skills, from multiple foes, in certain areas, are really useful.

As for Epidemic and Dazed, I had very bad experiences with heroes using them together. Heroes just do not know when to use Epidemic and when not to.

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Zho requires some support or you have to hope her first BHA lands. Otherwise she uses Penetrating Shot repeatedly and kills her own energy. Not having a decent level of Expertise is a pain.

Zho also has savage shot and disrupting shot. She is usually ok, but you have to bring her forward to reduce the chance of her BHA being dodged.

Super Igor · Apr 06, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

flame my comment plx, anyway, kool bueeld.

~Super Igor

~

Trvth Jvstice · Apr 06, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

flame my comment plx, anyway, kool bueeld.

~Super Igor

~

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Cathode_Reborn · Apr 07, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I don't really see the point of having a dedicated interrupter, or even a BHA ranger but that's just me. The only time I ever used one was in Zen Daijun HM just for the rit boss at the end. If EotN was out at the time though, I would've replaced the ranger. If I want an interrupt, I'll just slap Power return on a random hero, caster or not.

If I really wanted a dedicated interrupter, I'd probably use a Psychic Distraction nec. Crank up the SR and spec into whatever you want since the disable time isn't too useful in pve depending on the area. Fill up the rest of the bar and disable PD whenever you want the hero to do other stuff, since PD disables the caster's own bar. I say nec cause a mes hero is likely to drain their energy with it. I wouldn't ever fill an entire bar with interrupts. A ranger only really needs Dshot/Savage and maybe BHA to be a good interrupter, but they still kinda do crap damage (unless you're runnin orders and other buffs). There's a few enemies that can really dish the pain with spells, but it's usually never enough to make me bring a ranger or mes.

Antithesis · Apr 12, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Hey DarkSpirit, i've been tooling around with Heroes to take with Sabway on a second account and came up with something for you to try.

Replace Weapon of Remedy / Icy Veins on your N/Rt Restorer with Weapon of Quickening (I plant Splinter Weapon & Ancestors Rage on the MM). The Mes gets targeted with the Weapon spell straight away giving perma-50% recharge. I left Restoration at 12, dropped Soul Reaping to 10 and pumped Communing to 10.

This also gives you an option for an alternative Elite if desired, you'll get 33% spell recharge from WoQ without MoR. Your other casters also benefit from the recharge buff so it's a nice skill to take in a caster party.

DarkSpirit · Apr 12, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Hey DarkSpirit, i've been tooling around with Heroes to take with Sabway on a second account and came up with something for you to try.

Nice! I forgot about that skill. The drawback is, you need a hero to bring it for you, but sabway should be able to do it.

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Replace Weapon of Remedy / Icy Veins on your N/Rt Restorer with Weapon of Quickening (I plant Splinter Weapon & Ancestors Rage on the MM). The Mes gets targeted with the Weapon spell straight away giving perma-50% recharge. I left Restoration at 12, dropped Soul Reaping to 10 and pumped Communing to 10.

Communing? I dont think sabway has communing, it must be your own variant.

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This also gives you an option for an alternative Elite if desired, you'll get 33% spell recharge from WoQ without MoR. Your other casters also benefit from the recharge buff so it's a nice skill to take in a caster party.

What elite do you think we should replace it with then? [Power Block] or [Psychic Instability] or [Stolen Speed] maybe?

Antithesis · Apr 12, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Nice! I forgot about that skill. The drawback is, you need a hero to bring it for you, but sabway should be able to do it.

Yep, it can slot right onto Sab's N/Rt Restorer.

Test bar -

[weapon of quickening][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][shadowsong][life][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

Weapon of Quickening is showing real promise...6.5 sec Spiteful Spirit recharge anyone? How about Shadowsong (up 100% with WoQ) + Price of Failure for 100% miss at 43 damage per swing. Very nice

The hero won't cast WoQ on itself if carrying Protective was Kaolai, which is actually a benefit because it'll be buffing your other casters like the Mes interrupter or the SS or you. The AI is smart enough not to cast WoQ on physicals - if you're running a physical team Weapon of Fury's an obvious replacement.

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

What elite do you think we should replace it with then? [Power Block] or [Psychic Instability] or [Stolen Speed] maybe?

Stick with MoR, 50% recharge turns the Mes into a machine gun, but they all look like sweet options. You may need to micro the first WoQ to make sure it hits Power Block. The build i've been playing around with has Daze and Blind, Fevered Dreams was my elite in testing. In Hex-heavy areas, Hex Eater Vortex or Expel Hexes would be handy, you should still have decent energy management with 33% recharge on Power Drain and Drain Enchantment.

Sethellington · Apr 13, 2008, 10:12 AM // 10:12

still don't agree with vengeance... sorry -.-